MLT Ep 42 Switching Gears, Anger, Approval, Abandonment

January reminds me of all of these things: not being able to switch gears, trying to get approval for someone who would never give it, homicidal anger, self-soothing and abandonment (or “How Wacky Can One Person Be?”) The WORLD should TG that I found recovery!


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Mean Lady Talking Podcast Episode Number 36B Show Notes

 

disengagement

Welcome to the Mean Lady Talking Podcast!

In this episode, we’re talking about

Grief and Loss Part 2 of 3

Show Notes and Player for Episode 36B

See below for links to listen and subscribe on your favorite platform:

iTunes, GooglePlay, SoundCloud, Stitcher, Spotify, TuneIn, iHeartRadio

(links to the show on all these platforms is below)


 

What’s in this podcast:

Everything You’ve Ever Wanted To Know About Grief and Loss  

This Episode Covers Review and Relinquishment – the GREAT STRUGGLE BETWEEN WANTING TO HOLD ON AND NEEDING TO LET GO.

 

The middle part of grieving is Review and Relinquishment.  It is the painful, bit-by-bit letting go. 

00.30 Freud noted that the human relationship is inherently ambivalent

2:00 Even if you had a wonderful relationship, there are things you don’t like about someone. When you breakup a bad relationship, it’s not clear how you really feel.

3:00 The Relationship Inventory is designed as it is to take the ambivalence of the relationship into consideration.

3:30 When you are with a person who is personality disordered, it takes a lot to figure out what it is you like about them.  But people with personality disorders will be nice to you now and again and you will find some “good things” hard to let go of.

4:45 When someone has passed on, it’s hard to admit what you didn’t like about them. When you’ve broken up, it’s hard to admit what you DID like about them.

5:30 The manifestation of unresolved grief becomes very disordered behavior. We will be in chaotic relationships to avoid the grief we don’t know what to do with.

6:20 Eric Lindemann said that successful resolution of grief depends on committing to the work DESPITE the emotional upheaval. Holding on and seeing it through even when it’s difficult.  Freud recognized that life does not seem “real” or “normal” when you’re grieving, but it’s not a malady.

7:55 Eric Lindemann coined the phrase “grief work” to explain the effort that grief requires. He also spoke of delayed and distorted variants of grief.

9:00 Not having any reaction is also pathological.  However, Lindemann criticized western society for “giving credit” to people who are not having an outward grief reaction.

10:50 Charles Anderson studied soldiers coming back from the war and found that his participants were having crippling and debilitating depression.  This study was a forerunner of all studies on PTSD.

13:00 John Bowlby and Mary Ainsworth look at detachment. Bowlby was determined to find out why DETACHING was so hard – by way of ATTACHMENT.  His child/mother/stranger studies became CENTRAL to attachment and mourning theory.

First the children will feel disbelief that they’ve been left, then an alarm reaction….they slowly came to understand that mother wasn’t coming back and the process was ON: they started to feel very anxious when they couldn’t find their mother. They start to have emotional distress with crying and other forms of protest.  Then the child starts to slide into resignation. They will hear a noise and PIPE UP and then they will go back to looking lifeless when the NOISE was NOT mother. The child becomes very hypersensitive to noises and as the noises are NOT mother, they start to slide into mourning.

17:15  You will see the mourning process happen in the child.  The affective state starts to become less and less as the child realizes that mother is not coming back. The psyche struggles between wanting to hold on and needing to let go.

18:45 The human mind will get you through loss if you do NOTHING but let the feelings come. Even though you feel horrible, it’s a normal and natural response to loss.

19:30 Bowlby and Ainsworth’s amazing work on attachment came directly from Freud’s theories on DETACHMENT.

21:00 Pathological attachment is directly connected to early attachments or lack of attachments.

22:00 Bowlby found that when attachment bonds are threatened, the system experiences grave distress.  The first response is to GET ATTACHMENT FIGURE BACK. If the attachment is avoidant or anxious, it is going to affect ALL attachment bonds throughout life.

23:30 Colin Murray Parkes talked about the fluidity of grief. The British widows in Parkes’ study had the SAME emotional reaction as Bowlby’s children.  And Konrad Lorenz who studied the Grey Lag Goose which mates for life, found the same response in the geese! But it has nothing to do with intellectual capacity.  The widows knew their husband had passed, yet they looked for their husbands in a crowd and started to call them on the phone….the same way the children looked for mother and the goose looked for his/her partner.  So intellectual understanding means NOTHING when the SEARCH mechanism kicks in.

26:30 Your mind is just playing the movie of your relationship. It is not making judgment calls on your relationship.

27:30 Colin Murray Parkes called grief a “blow,” and likened it to a physical wound.

28:45  In A Grief Observed, C.S. Lewis works through his grief process. There is a back-and-forth progression of grief.

30:00 Shutting off the grief. You have to get back to it.

31:00 Elisabeth Kubler-Ross on grief: “Grief will happen either as an open healing wound or a closed, festering wound.” If you don’t give up on grief, you can complete it. It’s never too late to resolve a loss. The consequences of NOT resolving grief are dire. UNREALITY.

 

 

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The Mean Lady Talking is a GPYB Production

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Why Is It Called The Mean Lady Talking?

Episode 1: The Mean Lady Talking Podcast

Some of MLT's Best!

Episode 36a: The MLT Grief and Loss Series

Episode 59a: Attachment, Rejection & Grief Series

Episode 63a: Sick Relationships and Our Recovery From Them Part 1

Episode 39a: Narcissists, Sociopaths, Psychopaths and the Watts Family Murders Part 1

Episode 13: Personality Disorders and a Disordered Publication

Episode 56: Jealousy, Blaming and Gaslighting

Episode 1: Why Is It Named The Mean Lady Talking Podcast?

Episode 54a: Narcissists, Love Bombing, Mirroring and Catfishing Jerks

Episode 5: Shoulda Woulda Coulda - Grief, Guilt and Regret

Mean Lady Talking Podcast Episode Number 36A Show Notes

 

Welcome to the Mean Lady Talking Podcast!

In this episode, we’re talking about

Grief and Loss Part 1 of 3

Show Notes and Player for Episode 36A

See below for links to listen and subscribe on your favorite platform:

iTunes, GooglePlay, SoundCloud, Stitcher, Spotify, TuneIn, iHeartRadio

(links to the show on all these platforms is below)

GO HERE FOR EPISODE 36B


 

What’s in this podcast:

Everything You’ve Ever Wanted To Know About Grief and Loss  

Times are Approximate

In this 3-part PODCAST we are talking about Grief and Loss Theory from Freud Forward

Telling the difference between the OBSESSION (unhealthy) and REVIEW & RELINQUISHMENT (healthy)


1:00-4:00 Techniques to get you out of the perseveration

5:00 The way we attach and detach has to do with early caregivers.

13:30 We’ve been doing this for ONE HUNDRED YEARS and we still don’t get it.

16:20 There are only THREE occasions we share with every other person on the face of the Earth and losing someone we love is ONE of them and we don’t talk about it.

19:30 We have to put up with so much of review and relinquishment of the movie in our head. But our emotions are what is HEALING us.

21:35 We have to get better at teaching people how to deal with loss and what grief should look like.

22:20 Back to Siggy and Karl and their exciting talk about mourning.

22:52 Freud originally believed that you had to relinquish the person COMPLETELY after they passed. He later changed to believe that we INTEGRATE the existence and relationship with the person instead of letting go completely.

24:00 Grief is a normal and natural response to loss. Even though it involves a “grave departure” from regular life,  it is not a malady.  Freud stated that you could grieve many other things besides the death of a loved one.

27:17 Grief is the painful, bit-by-bit letting go.  It is the struggle between wanting to hold on but needing to let go. Because the work is so difficult, people are inclined to delay, inhibit or stop the grief process.

28:50 Melancholia is a stifled, unimpassioned, drowsy grief. We feel bad and then we feel angry at ourselves for feeling as bad as we really feel.

30:00 Revisiting Freud’s changed position on relinquishing versus integration. You can integrate a lost love (who is still alive) into who you are and your experience.  You internalize the things you LIKED about the relationship or the person you were with.

32:00 When we do the internalization, we are able to go on with pleasant memories. When we’re still in pain, we’re not done yet.

33:20 Why grief does not happen in STAGES

34:00 When people think of “staging,” it screws them up when they repeat a phase.

34:25: Phases of Grief: Shock and Denial, Review and Relinquishment, Integration, Acceptance and Moving on. It’s much easier to DENY when it’s a breakup.

36:25: Is it unhealthy perseveration or is it necessary review?  If you have questions with no answers, you have to shut it down with distractions and mantras.  If you are doing the review, you have to let it happen even though it’s hard and hurts. 

Do You Find This Content Valuable?

We Need Your Support To Continue!

 

Click Here to Become a Meanie Patreon Support and Receive Mentions and Bonus Episodes

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Follow the Mean Lady Talking Podcast on Social Media!

The Mean Lady Talking is a GPYB Production

GPYB Books

GPYB Coaching and Counseling

GPYB Newsletter

The Getting Past Your Breakup Website